SoughdoughBread.com FAQ

You were right to throw out the starter with mold! It's pretty unusual for this San Francisco Sourdough Starter to get moldy. Sometimes if there are drips of it inside the jar above the level of the starter it can be more prone to contamination. Because of that, I empty and wash my jar about every couple or three months. It seems that if the inside of the jar is clean of small drips that mold won't attack the large quantity of starter itself because of the lactobacillus.

Flatness instead of height is always a problem with sourdough. Try adding more flour to the dough, to make it stiffer, for free form loaves. Also try making smaller loaves. I have started making 9-ounce loaves which turn out perfect for dinner for four! I make them free-form and just slightly oval. They are really cute and the slices are a good size for serving, cut off the long side. I also have some bread forms (not loaf pans) that I use for pretty baguettes and fatter Italian-shaped loaves. One is an unglazed clay with a lid in a long but fat loaf shape that I really love. They are pricey....retail for about $50, but it's like baking bread in a brick oven. The others are about $20 each and are made of metal with tiny holes all over it and made by Chicago Metallic. You can find both on the King Arthur Flour site. I bought my Chicago Metallic ones at a local kitchen store (and one at a garage sale!!). You can also get basket-like things that you coat with flour for the last rise and then you turn the risen loaf out on a sheet pan or on a peel to transfer to a baking stone. Commercial sourdough bakers use forms of one type or another--some use floured fabric that is suspended on wooden forms. The point is, you are not alone and you don't have to feel like you're not a good baker if you don't get mile-high loaves like you can get with commercial yeast.

I think you're probably letting it rise too much...either too long or at too warm a temp. for the timing. You should be able to slash it without deflating it, but do try a single-edged razor blade instead of a knife. And dip it in water before each slash.

Mix one egg with 1 T water and 'paint' on loaf just before baking. Or leave it in the oven longer. Check the temp of your oven. Keep the oven at 400 degrees the whole time instead of turning it down.

Use a higher proportion of active starter so that you'll have more yeast organisms. Be sure that starter is at its peak of activity when you use it.

[Linda] I have been told that San Francisco Sourdough bread has a lower glycemic index but I have no proof.

[Linda] I guess because it originated there and the specific wild yeast and lactobacillus that make up the starter cannot be captured from the air anywhere else.

[Linda] Absolutely! There are recipes on the recipes page of my website!

Hi Kate,

Because the sponge bubbled when you fed it, then it appears that the yeast is still alive and well. I'll be glad to send you a new starter if you want me to, but right now I don't think that will help. The only thing I can think of that could have stopped your dough from rising is overkneading— and I know that can happen because I have done it. In fact, just recently I changed my instructions to read 'knead no more than 5 minutes in the Kitchenaid.'

In addition, even if the kneading time isn't excessive, it appears that the gluten will also break down (which is what causes the dough not to rise if it's overkneaded) if the dough gets too warm while it is being kneaded. So, the first thing I would try is to just knead 5 minutes, after making very sure that you are starting with a vigorously active starter. And the second thing I would do is to keep the dough a little cooler and perhaps add a handful of crushed ice to the dough at the beginning of the actual kneading time.

Something else that strengthens the gluten is adding ascorbic acid -- either in the form of Fruit Fresh powder or crushed Vitamin C tablets. If you're using freshly milled flour, you must have the ascorbic acid so that the gluten won't collapse.

I hope this helps!

Hi Rich,

I'm glad that you wrote. Believe it or not, your starter is just hungry. Hooch is the result of the metabolism of the yeast and lactobacillus organisms. Your dough won't rise because there are't enough yeast organisms in your sponge. Here's what to do. Early on a morning that you'll be home for several hours, take ½ cup of your starter and feed it with 2.5 cups of water and flour. Note what time it is and then watch it. You should see it get more active, become more glutinous and bubbly and then, if you don't feed it, you'll see it settle down and form hooch.

It appears that your room temperature is warm enough and your starter vigorous enough to completely use up all the food from a big feeding in record time.

Here's what to do. The next time you want to bake, take out ½ cup of stash and feed it with four cups each of flour and water. That might be enough to keep your critters fed until early the next morning.

Let me hear...I care!

Cheers,

Linda
www.SourdoughBreads.com

Hi Chuck,

I'm glad that you wrote. You can keep as much starter as you want in the fridge. But, go ahead and finish the activation because it's actually much easier to make huge amounts of starter with fully activated starter.

Yes, you must reduce the volume before each feeding during the 72 hours of activation. Throw it out! When activation is finished, then give your daughter-in-law a cup of fully activated starter and she can use it right away.

Yes, just double any recipe you want. To get more starter for pancakes in the morning, take out about half a cup of your stash the night before and add as much flour and water as you want, usually in equal proportions, so that you'll end up with enough batter for pancakes the next morning. In other words, mix a half cup of your refrigerated stash with three or four or even five or six cups of flour and water and you'll have fully active huge amounts of batter, ready to have your other ingredients (eggs, salt, baking powder or soda, etc.) added for pancakes.

Please write again if you have other questions!

Hi Patty,

When you order the San Francisco sourdough starter from me, you can 'activate' it (bring it out of hibernation) with the 100% whole wheat flour of your choice.

I ship the starter dry, and you'll receive less than a tablespoon, so that by the time you finish the activation process, there is virtually no white flour left. You can read about the activation process in my online Instruction Booklet at

https://sourdoughbreads.com/sourdough-starter-help.php

The really important part of the starter is the two microscopic organisms it contains—the reason for the small amount of dry starter you receive. Even a teaspoon of dry starter contains thousands—maybe millions, who knows??—of very much alive—but sleeping—wild yeast and lactobacillus organisms. When you add water and wheat flour, the tiny organisms wake up, begin eating and reproducing themselves, and voila', you have very active starter to make your bread with.

If this doesn't make sense, please let me know, and I'll give you more detail.

Hi Doreen,

If you haven't fed your starter in a couple of months, so many organisms have died that you just don't have a dense enough population to make your dough rise.

Here's what I recommend: Take about a half cup of starter, put it in a bowl with 2 cups each of flour and water. Cover it and let it ferment until you see some activity. Then repeat the process—two or three times, each time, reducing the volume to a half cup. This process will help your starter build up its population of yeast and lactobacillus organisms. Each time you do it, you should see it get active sooner and you should see more vigorous activity as well.

Never try to make sourdough bread without a VERY active sponge. If you'll feed your stash at least once a month, then you'll always be able to start with an active sponge.

Hi Mike,

I'm glad that you wrote. I guess I'm a little extravagant with flour and water. You can use ¼ cup of your starter and add only 2 cups each of flour and water, and you'll still have a little more than 2.5 cups to bake with in the morning. Put what's left in your jar and put it in the fridge, since it's been recently fed.

I hope this helps! Have fun with your breadmaking!

Hi Benny,

First, thanks for serving me and our country. I'm glad that you're back safely.

Amazingly, it sounds like your starter is still alive. So many organisms have died, however, the you probably just don't have a dense enough population to make your dough rise. Here's what I recommend: Take about a half cup of starter, put it in a bowl with 2 cups each of flour and water. Cover it and let it ferment until you see lots of ood activity. Then repeat the process—two or three times, each time, reducing the volume to a half cup. This process will help your starter build up its population of yeast. Each time you do it, you should see it get active sooner and you should see more vigorous activity as well.

I hope this will help!

[Linda] Hi Mike,

I'm glad you wrote. I think your lazy yeast is actually hungry and part of the yeast population is dying in the 8 hours between each feeding. On the second and third days of activation, you probably should be feeding every 4 hours. Here's what to do: Take a cup of starter and feed it a cup each of flour and water. As soon as you see it get active...probably in an hour or two, reduce the volume and repeat or...don't reduce the volume, if you want enough to make bread, and give a feeding of 2 1/2 cups each of flour and water.

Starter that is this active should make dough that will give two good rises and good oven spring as well. It may be quite different from the starter you had before in terms of its appetite. When I make bread with this starter, the first rise takes about 2 hours and the second rise about the same. If you start with really active starter, I'd count on the 2 hour rises.

[Mike] Yes, that fixed it. Thanks!

[Linda] Wow… such great info. I love it!!

[Randy] It makes sense about using bread flour as opposed to all purpose etc. The main reason I asked is because my starter took on a whole new personality when I switched from all purpose to bread flour…. It became A LOT thicker and more glutenous (is that even a real word?). But of course it makes sense as the bread flour has a higher protein content. Anyway, long story short… my starter is very happy with the bread flour and also my loaves are coming out better for sure!! I just got done snacking on the “end” of a newly hatched loaf (bread machine). It just doesn't get any better than an “end” covered with real butter while still warm. And the genuine San Francisco sourdough taste… Linda there is no way to explain eating genuine SF sourdough in my Kentucky kitchen… that I made myself!!

[Randy] I like the tea towel idea also. Plastic wrap just doesn't look right anyway. Also, I appreciate the tip about a little extra flour for the free form loaves. Can you knead this dough too much?? I get a little concerned about overworking the dough but like everything else… practice makes perfect huh??

[Randy] And yes… please feel free to use any and/or all of my e-mails on your website. What better way to learn than by the experiences of others huh?? Actually, I can attribute some (most) of my success with the bread machine to Joe Wagner's e-mails.

[Randy] Anyway, I believe it's time to go get another slice of that fresh loaf so I'll close for now.

Thanks again Linda, Randy

[Linda] Thank you so much for your great feedback. I just love people who are as nuts about sourdough as I am…and it definitely sounds like you're thoroughly hooked.

[Linda] May I have your permission to post some or all of your text on the FAQ and Reviews pages of my web site? So much of what you say is not only informative but also encouraging to newbies.

[Linda] Now for your questions. After you have baked enough with sourdough starter to understand what you're doing and how it behaves, you can keep your starter at any consistency that you want—from about like pancake batter to very thick, but not quite dough, and it won't matter to your yeast and lactobacillus babies. The only difference will be that you will adjust your amounts of ingredients as you make your sponge and then your dough.

[Linda] As for flours, that's a different story. You will get distinctly different results with dough made from all different types of flours, but all will be acceptable in my opinion. I buy bread flour by the 50 lb. ($9!!!) bag at Costco or Sam's, so I tend to use it for just about all steps. For free form loaves, bread flour, which is higher in protein, will give you a better, more predictable shape than the all-purpose, which has a lower protein content and doesn't form gluten that is as strong as that formed by the use of bread flour. That said, use what you like!

[Linda] I too use a large glass bowl for my feedings and I used to use plastic wrap to cover it. I have now gone back to my grandma's practice, before plastic wrap existed, and I use a cotton tea towel to keep out bugs and dirt. That's why I started selling the tea towels on my web site. The cotton towel is sooo much easier to handle than that *#$@$!! plastic wrap and it looks much better too. When my sponge is in my mixer bowl, the towel is large enough to cover the top of the KA mixer and the bowl too! Plus, it's reusable! With all that, the answer is, leave it loose so it can breathe! ?

[Linda] Two more comments—one you asked for and one you didn't. You're absolutely right about the clean-up of sourdough stuff—I always let everything soak in cold water and then it comes off easily. But it is sticky stuff—much more so than ‘normal' flour and water. You're also right that I should warn people about it!

[Linda] When you make your ‘free form' loaves, be sure to add a little extra flour for a slightly dryer dough—not sticky—and knead very well. If you don't, your free-form loaves are likely to ‘rise sideways'—in other words, flatten out, instead of rising up and making a nicely rounded loaf.

[Linda] Let me hear! And thanks again for the great communication!

Hi Linda,

A suggestion for your proofing box..........I use my infinite adjustment halogen task lamp that I borrow from my office desk. The infinite adjustments allow me to easily adjust the temperature inside my cooler to my desired temperature.

Mike

[Linda] Unfortunately, with sourdough baking, you can't write instructions like a ‘normal' recipe, because everything depends on everything else. What you're doing is bringing two different one-celled organisms out of hibernation with the moisture and feeding them with the flour and water so that they can eat and reproduce. Once they start that process, I think you'll have a better idea of what you're dealing with and perhaps see why I wrote the instructions the way I did. The one-celled organisms are the ‘critters' and metabolism is those critters eating and exhaling (which makes bread rise) and reproducing and making more critters so that you'll eventually have enough yeast and lactobacillus organisms to make your bread rise and make it taste good.

[Bread Baker] Since I'm not understanding "critters" and the activity I'm supposed to observe, I guess I'm asking for something more traditional. Also on page 3 it indicates that: "at about the peak of activity, stir the mixture well and then pour out all but about a cup of the starter and feed it." I'm sorry to be so dense, but am I throwing away all but a cup?

[Linda] Yes, that's exactly what it means. Throw out all but one cup of the starter.

[Bread Baker] I appreciate your help. Again, my apologies for all my questions. The only time I make bread and rolls from scratch is when I use my bread machine. So, I'm a real novice when it comes to the real deal. Thanks so much.

[Linda] You don't need to apologize. Tech support—unlimited—is free...and I'm glad that you wrote. I want everyone who has my starter to be successful at baking wonderful sourdough bread in their own kitchen—and you can do it! I promise. Just write any time you have a question.

I'm glad that you wrote and that you are enjoying your new pets. The easiest way to use the stone is to put it in the oven when you begin to preheat. Then put the pan that your shaped and risen dough is on directly on top of the stone when you put it into the oven.

When you've had a little practice in shaping and rising and know how your dough behaves and exactly the right time to bake it, then you can shape your loaves on a baker's peel that is dusted with cornmeal and, when rising is finished, use the peel to slide the loaves directly on to the hot stone. For obvious reasons, I don't recommend this at first.

The stone does a lot to stabilize the temperatures inside your oven as well as making the bottom of your bread very crusty, even if it's on a pan and not directly on the stone. Congratulations on grinding your own wheat! I'd love to know how you like using the sourdough starter with it.

I use ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) in my breadmaking -- sourdough or not -- because it prevents a problem from occuring in freshly milled flour that weakens the gluten bond -- and gluten is what gives your dough the strength to hold a rise. You never really know if your flour is aged or freshly milled, so I just add the Vitamin C whenever I bake bread. In sourdough it's just more important because the acidity of the sourdough tends to weaken the gluten somewhat anyway. Citric acid is not necessary to get the characteristic San Francisco sour taste -- the lactobacillus in the starter takes good care of that.

Good question. If the starter I sell had been 'homemade' here in Texas and I sent it somewhere else, it might eventually take on different characteristics because most sourdough starter recipes you see tell you to just mix up flour and water and let the wild yeasts that are in your local air do their work.

The symbiotic combination of wild yeast and lactobacillus that make up the genuine "San Francisco Sourdough" starter culture is unique and readily excludes other wild yeasts and other friendly bacteria (lactobacilli). There are jillions of 'starters' out there that will leaven bread and even give it a sour taste. But the particular wild yeast, classified as Candida milleri, and the lactobacillus classified as L. sanfrancisco, both of which are contained in the starter I sell, are very special when they are together and they blatantly snub friendly overtures from other wild yeasts and lactobacilli.

There is a nutrient found in wheat flour called maltose. Candida milleri yeast is unable to use maltose. Funniest thing--the lactobacillus L. sanfrancisco loves to eat maltose and actually finds it essential for survival -- it can't live without it. So the wild yeast and its partner lactobacillus don't compete for nutrients when they're hanging out in a delicious nutritious flour and water mixture -- they actually help each other thrive. (Regular commercially available baker's yeast loves maltose and would eat it all up so the bacteria would die!) In addition, this particular lactobacillus produces an antibiotic that actually protects the culture from contamination.

Both this yeast and lactobacillus also grow best in an acid environment -- like a sourdough culture. But an acid environment actually inhibits the growth of most other yeasts, especially commercially available yeast. Most other lactobacilli really hate an acid environment too. So, now you know why a San Francisco Sourdough Starter can survive in Texas and stay pure. It is very difficult to contaminate it with the randomly available wild yeasts that are all over everybody's air. It keeps itself pure.

I didn't make this starter. I got it from someone who got it from a baker in San Francisco.

First for flat loaves -- they are common for 'freeform' bread -- and especially sourdough. And you're right, adding more flour will give you more structure and, therefore, height.  Another thing to do is to knead more. Kneading strengthens the gluten and the stronger the gluten, the more your bread will rise up.You can also buy all sorts of forms -- baskets, metal baguette forms, all the way to a canvas baker's couche, but if you'll add flour and knead more and shape your free-form loaves by moving them in circles on the countertop to tighten the 'skin' (a la Alton Brown) you'll make beautiful round loaves that make you proud -- without any form at all.  It just takes some practice.

Second, for dense loaves...sourdough tends to be dense and heavy all by itself. But if you want it lighter and less dense than it is, then use starter that is more 'active' -- that is, starter that has been fed really heavy feedings for 24 hours or more -- and then use it at its most active and don't add any other liquid. Be sure that, no matter how long it takes, that you see your dough and your loaves almost double in bulk -- at least increase by 1 1/2 times.

Your bread got more sour as the starter 'matured' and that is normal.

The 'hooch' is just the liquid byproduct of metabolism of the organisms and when it accumulates, you know that soon you need to get your little critters out and feed them. But it doesn't have anything to do with the sourness of your finished loaf of bread.

Keep the faith, Michael. This sourdough baking is fun and challenging because there are so many variables. When I was first learning, I got in the habit of jotting down ingredient proportions, just in case something turned out really well. I still do it when I try something new.

One more thing .... what temperature is your oven when you put the bread in? Do you have a thermometer? If it's hot enough, you should be getting some good oven spring.